Parachute

[svenolivier]

Hi Everyone
Anyone wearing a parachute in their Tipsy? How do you fit in?
Regards
Sven

[JimCrawford]

Hi Sven,

I've looked into this and come to the conclusion that I can wear a parachute if I move the stick 70mm forwards and have schemed a mod for this but it's on hold while I get the aircraft back to service.
You can get thin packs which carry the contents full length down the back and forward on the seat and under the thighs but even with this style you would have to be quite small with a standard cockpit. Otherwise the stick hits your stomach before it reaches the aft stop. I did try a mock-up of a scheme where the walking beam which connects the stick to the belcrank behind the seat is lengthend by ~ 20mm. This brings the top of the stick forward by ~ 70mm but the geometry of the beam and the fuselage structure is so tight the beam fouled the tubes.

Jim

[svenolivier]

Dear Jim
thank you for the reply, i am thinking of getting as chute that fits into the "turtle deck" above the seat and behind my shoulders and neck.
I have seen some glider pilots using that in gliders they are too tall to fit in otherwise.
regards

Sven

[JimCrawford]

Hi Sven,

I think I know the arrangement you describe, the pilot essentially wears just the harness and the pack is attached at the shoulders. I haven't seen one and think they are rather unusual, perhaps made to order rather than 'off the shelf', but certainly a possible solution.
If your Nipper has the seat back mod it might be worth looking at some of the glider packs. Some packs fit between the shoulders and just above the small of the back which is supremely uncomfortable in the laid back seat of the glider because of the gap behind the lower back. However in a 'seat mod' Nipper it might be possible to fit a tapered rigid foam block to the seat between the bottom of the pack and the seat pan. So the pack would move your shoulders forward a bit but your hips wouldn't move forward and so you wouldn't have a problem restricting the stick.
Perhaps it would be worth going to a gliding club and trying on some possible candidates. I have an Air Pol (Polish manufacture) pack in my glider and it is super comfortable as the UK agent was involved in the case design. It is full length down the back so no lower back gap, and the harness straps are arranged for a tailored fit. Of course it is completely unwearable in the Nipper!
My Nipper does not have the seat mod.

Jim

[svenolivier]

Hi Jim

Thank you for the informative post. I don't have the seat mod, and i have tried my glider chute - no prospects of success. I will source the chute - i have seen it in real life in a Discus2a - it is as you describe - i harness to which is attache the chute, which sits on the turtle deck behind the pilot.

regards

Sven

[Neil Spooner]

Watch out for rearward CofG.....you may find you need it!
Ask me how I know!
Neil

[Paul1954]

Do tell…

I thought you declared to the AAIB that the c of g was 15.82” aft of the datum [and within permitted aerobatic limits]? Or is it another incident?

[Neil Spooner]

That is correct, it’s on the rearward limit.
Enough said?

[Paul1954]

Not really. Limit are 14.4” to 16.5” aft of datum - please correct me if I’m wrong, but 15.8” aft is well within the permitted range.

Are you suggesting doing aeros in a Nipper within the permitted weight and c of g range will cause problems?

[Neil Spooner]

Not at all. The Nipper has an exceptional safety record. The only fatalities have been due to bird strike and botched dead stick landings to my knowledge.
All I am saying is that it is better to operate the a/c away from the rear limit.
Barry Smith used to deliberately flat spin his Nipper during displays, but found it unpredictable to recover especially when operating close to the rear limit.
When you consider how many people aerobat this type with little or no experience of performing aerobatics it’s docile and predictable handling shows it is a very safe aircraft.

[Paul1954]

I ‘m happy to hear that.

If you go through the losses of Nippers you will find the majority cause to be low level aeros. Pilots underestimated the height required to pull out and they usually stall during recovery and hit the ground.

I have a bit of a ‘thing’ about external cameras on aircraft too. Look no further than the loss of Art Scholl while filming for ‘TOP GUN’.

[Neil Spooner]

I haven’t heard of any Nippers having done that, but plenty of others. Altitude or airspeed, preferably both.

If you watch Top Gun credits to the end you will see that the film was dedicated to him.

[Paul1954]

I stopped looking after finding the first 10 accidents…

C/N 3 PH-MED Spun-in during low level aeros, 28/12/64.
C/N 5 D-EMIF Crashed during airshow, 14/06/64. Fatal.
C/N 12 D-EBUD Crashed during low level ‘demo’ flight, 14/05/60. Fatal.
C/N 13 D-EMED Crashed, out of control, 23/05/70. Fatal.
C/N14 OO-DAN Crashed during demo flight, 12/09/59.
C/N 19 D-EMEL Crashed during aerobatics, 26/07/63. Fatal.
C/N 20 D-EDOT Crashed, low level over pics house, stall & spin. Fatal.
C/N 21. OO-MIL Crashed, low level aeros, 13/07/63. Fatal.
C/N 48 OO-GDA Crashed, low level aeros, 15/05/60. Fatal.
C/N 70. G-AVKT Crashed, flew into ground following low level loop, 19,08,72. Fatal.

[Neil Spooner]

I hadn’t realised so many Nippers had crashed. However, “lies, dam lies & statistics”….I think the common denominator is low level aerobatics, in this case in a Nipper…but the records & countryside is littered with the remains of many other aircraft that have met the same fate. Don’t condemn the Nipper, condemn the pilots who push their luck.
“Old pilots and bold pilots, but not many Old Bold pilots” etc.
G-AVKT: Chasing a toilet roll down from 200’…..yep, good luck with that. Idiot. His only redeeming feature is that he didn’t kill anyone on the ground. More by luck than judgment.

[JimCrawford]

Noticed an advert on gliderpilot.net for this Danish parachute manufacturer
https://www.cahoma.aero/?lang=en
they seem to do tapered packs which move either your shoulders or your bum forward to suit pilot shape and space around the seat.

Jim